Cao Pi
King of Wei
Emperor of China
Posts: 233
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Post by Cao Pi on Jun 26, 2009 12:45:44 GMT -5
The Zhuge Nu is actually an adapted version of a Qin dynasty weapon, so he isn't its actual inventor, but more of a perfectionist. He adapted the existing invention and made it better.
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Post by Battle Mod on Jun 26, 2009 12:53:20 GMT -5
The Zhuge Nu is actually an adapted version of a Qin dynasty weapon, so he isn't its actual inventor, but more of a perfectionist. He adapted the existing invention and made it better. Interesting point. Although it could be thought of as similar to how guns have evolved throughout history. Although gunpowder was one of the most important inventions in the history of mankind, each improvement upon the basic gun from the weapon's inception until today is also fairly notable. Wei actually had an inventor of its own named Ma Jun, but he is not as famous as Zhuge Liang. Zhuge Liang I believe was a fairly talented person, in more ways than one. He was definitely the best statesman Shu had, and one of the best of the period all things considered. He is overrated by the novel, but he was no slouch historically either.
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Cao Pi
King of Wei
Emperor of China
Posts: 233
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Post by Cao Pi on Jun 26, 2009 12:58:51 GMT -5
I totally agree, he improved the Zhuge Nu a lot, but the idea of a repeating crossbow invented by Zhuge Liang is false. The Qin had already established such inventions before-hand, with every new century people find new ways to enhance pre-existing inventions, but that doesn't mean they are the inventors of its original design.
Zhuge Liang was a brilliant spokesman, I like Zhuge Liang a lot, I just don't think the repeating crossbow (zhuge ku nu) should be called the zhuge nu, as he didnt invent it. I suppose thats what irritates me the most. A part from that, I like Shu - even if they're over-rated in the novel.
The best example of that would be of course Guan Yu, who is totally over-rated.
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Post by Battle Mod on Jun 26, 2009 13:05:41 GMT -5
Not a particular fan of him. He took advantage of opportunities well, but he wasn't that great overall. Still, he slew Yan Liang according to his Sanguozhi (though not Wen Chou). He also shook things up during his campaign against Wei, but ultimately he failed pretty bad.
I think Ma Chao is the worst of the 5 Tigers.
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Kyle
Rebel Warrior
Your skin is something that I stir into my tea.
Posts: 81
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Post by Kyle on Jun 26, 2009 18:28:55 GMT -5
I agree, fuck Ma Chao. What worthless douche.
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Xu Zhu
Warrior of Wei
Goddamn birds always start singing when the sun comes up!
Posts: 144
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Post by Xu Zhu on Jun 27, 2009 2:57:05 GMT -5
Nah, Ma Chao was uberhorseyrider. He almost had Cao Cao beaten that one time near Chang An.
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Post by Battle Mod on Jun 27, 2009 14:51:18 GMT -5
Nah, Ma Chao was uberhorseyrider. He almost had Cao Cao beaten that one time near Chang An. In the book.
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Xu Zhu
Warrior of Wei
Goddamn birds always start singing when the sun comes up!
Posts: 144
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Post by Xu Zhu on Jun 29, 2009 3:32:28 GMT -5
We're talking about ROT3K GENERAL, righT?
I know many things that have been said to be falsh are very much real.
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Post by Sima Yi on Jun 29, 2009 8:22:36 GMT -5
Nah, Ma Chao was uberhorseyrider. He almost had Cao Cao beaten that one time near Chang An. In the book. Seriously dude that's twice now you need to actually realise were your posting. This thread is about the book...
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Post by Battle Mod on Jun 29, 2009 10:38:12 GMT -5
It's about both. Just figured I'd point it out.
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Cao Pi
King of Wei
Emperor of China
Posts: 233
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Post by Cao Pi on Jun 29, 2009 10:42:53 GMT -5
Slick is right, he specifically mentioned history, book, whatever.
I do wish you'd check these things before you post aruzo lol. Anyways, Huang Zhong..he wasn't bad, lived till he was 73, which was quite good in that era, heck our life expectancy is only around 77 for males now lol, so that was pretty badass.
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Xu Zhu
Warrior of Wei
Goddamn birds always start singing when the sun comes up!
Posts: 144
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Post by Xu Zhu on Jun 29, 2009 16:27:17 GMT -5
Yeah, amazing. But the Zhang bro's that helped Sun Quan out after Sun Ce died. Those two did get old too. Hardly mentioned in both book and history, but I do think these two brilliant minds helped Sun Quan build his powerful army to withstand Cao Cao at Chi Bi and He Fei and such.
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Kyle
Rebel Warrior
Your skin is something that I stir into my tea.
Posts: 81
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Post by Kyle on Jun 29, 2009 18:30:59 GMT -5
You mean Zhang Hong and Zhang Zhao? They weren't really brothers, but that's beside the point. Hong died when he was 59, and Zhao died when he was 80.
Shi Xie was 89, so I think he wins. Plus he was awesome.
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Post by Battle Mod on Jun 30, 2009 0:32:41 GMT -5
Yeah, amazing. But the Zhang bro's that helped Sun Quan out after Sun Ce died. Those two did get old too. Hardly mentioned in both book and history, but I do think these two brilliant minds helped Sun Quan build his powerful army to withstand Cao Cao at Chi Bi and He Fei and such. Zhang Zhao wanted Sun Quan to surrender at Chi Bi, both in the book and historically.
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Xu Zhu
Warrior of Wei
Goddamn birds always start singing when the sun comes up!
Posts: 144
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Post by Xu Zhu on Jun 30, 2009 2:52:43 GMT -5
Can you expand your view and look at the big picture here? Since the death of Sun Ce, both those Zhangs had hhelped Sun Quan out to get a bigger kingdom and they provided the administration to maintaining it. Maybe for that moment he advised surrender, cause he was no warrior/general and probably disliked subordinates to be destroyed. But without the two, Sun Quan would only have bold warrior and hardly any good civil servants.
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